Talk:Theodor Eberbach/@comment-25228560-20160401011215/@comment-25228560-20160401022317
@Gamoe I don't think Theodore loved Lise the same way she loved him. Yes. Theo loved her as his sister; it had some incestuous overtones from him, I know they are not blood-related, but I understand the attraction. With Lise she loved him as a brother, of course, it became into something else. For Lise Theodore became a beacon of Hope and normalcy, of family, and of humanisation. Of all the characters, Lise is the one who is dehumanised the most. She is gang raped and then forced to kill people and become a "swallow" and I think she is an underrated character who the writers pretty much used like a trope. Because given her malevolence and anger at being objectified she could have easily become Beatrix's protegee and become the new Beatrix and well show more hatred and rage than anyone. I think Irisdina and Theodore are the OTP or soulmates or True Love in Schwarzesmarken. They are both responsible for doing things that they didn't want. They both have to kill a sibling they didn't want. Also, I think Irisdina already knew that Theodore forgave her as she had forgiven him. That scene would have been better if Irisdina also acknowledged that because Theodore considered family more important and hated Irisdina initially because he saw her as a blight to his beliefs. But the events of the show made him realise, as Shwarzesmarken was trying to, that family and State are not that important or important alone if other kinships and affiliations are forged thicker than those things. Which he had with Irisdina. Irisdina and he are both forced by family to do more than they can manage. And forced by State to kill their siblings. Also, they both are feeling guilty of "tricking" their siblings especially into a sexual situation. Obviously, Theodore will rationalise that because he didn't look hard for Lise, because he "allowed" her objectification and sexualisation and also in turn somewhat did some sexual stuff with her (I am not sure if he did sleep with her that would be awful) then kill her , that is why he did not deserve his happiness with Irisdina. And Irisdina would also think the same. Though that wouldn't be correct. They both know they did some crap shot things but they weren't really responsible for them. The alienation and frustration of fighting wars like this and also going through all of this and their State pretty much made them do all these things. So, I would say, they could have grew out of it together. Also killing Lise was pointless. It was because the writers didn't know what to do with such a dehumanised character. In the end Katia is the star of the show and becomes somewhat more than any of them because she was innocent enough or rather a bit unimpeachable which is where Schwarzesmarken fails as a show. Because it is obvious Theodore wants to repent and replenish himself as well. All the characters should be allowed, those who survived, should be able to do different things. And I am happy if Katia and Theodore don't start a relationship. It will be adding insult to injury. After all, though they are both survivors I think Irisdina and Theodore, up to this point, are the only ones who could get each other. I like how Katia is the non sequister anomaly in this show. She is a soldier but lacks all the cruelties of many war-machines thus she is a better leader than most. But she is also someone who struggles to understand both Irisdina and Theodore I think (not sure but her character type looks so) which would make a relationship between them a gulf only bridged by miscommunication and pain. Theodore needs to stop sulking and realise that he is not always gonna be a soldier and Katia needs to grow up more for them to even be better friends. This is one show I feel, even with its female harem qualities, that Irisdina and Beatrix are more complex than Theodore and the other. I would say the story is pivoted by these strong women. For Beatrix herself falls under State and family fallicy where she feels her love and her State are not impeachable but rather glorified extensions of her character and her beliefs. Whereas, Irisdina finds flaws with everyone even herself. She knows that State and family can make major mistakes that will harm others. She also knows sometimes, for personal good and even good of the many, even family members have to be incarcerated, unfortunately, she is made to kill one which was not her ambitions. Yet, Irisdina knows everyone is autonomous enough to make their own choices and if those choices are selfish she will have to question them or attack them knowing that someone would do the same for her even if she goes out of line. Theodore knows this too. Beatrix may have loved Jurgen but I think she also loved Irisdina. Both in a romantic way. And her idea of happiness is shattered with Jurgen and Irisdina coming into conflict. So, in some ways her grudge is also selfish though she may have noble aims. She does not try to see things in Irisdina's perspective. Because she and Jurgen has the same complex of thinking they know all that is to be known. I think in the end the writers made Irisdina die as she was the true hero of the show. And she had to be made a legacy or legend, as her character bio said. Because her living on is also another hard thing to write that many writers won't be able to do. After all, people can only think or write of great loves to an extent. To them "after happily ever after" is hard to imagine as they only saw the relationship from one particular context. If one looks at it at different angles I think Irisdina and Theodore would end up together and even if she was recovering in the last scene they would show a banadaged Irisdina serving as a guard with Theodore to Katia in the train. Because they still have a duty to protect her and the nation. But they would hold hands showing that they survived together and will continue to do so.